A Frustrating Facebook Conversation

Thompson (yesterday’s status update): ”There is no truth so obvious a liberal will not deny it. There is no lie so odious a liberal will not tell it.”

Michelle : It’s always fun to get up in the morning, check facebook to see how friends and family are doing. Especially when you find that your otherwise decent and nice former sunday school teacher, is calling you an “odious” liar.

Thompson: Michelle, I did not know you were a liberal. I know you parents sure are not.

Thompson: I will say this, it is hard to understand how anyone LDS can be a liberal. We have always believed in self-sufficiency, not in the government doing everything for you. Liberals believe in big government and it is the answer to all things. Liberals also believe in the murderous practice of abortion, in gay marriage, in opening things up so pornography is everywhere, etc. LDS have always opposed those things.

And, we believe in fairness. What the liberals and Democrats are saying is preposterous, that because we have come out and are letting our beliefs be heard, we are inciting possible assassination of our political leaders. As I remember, it was alright for liberals to criticize and heckle Bush in his State of The Union, to call him a murderer, etc. It was alright for liberals and Democrats to protest the Vietnam War, the War in Iraq, the G20 Summit in Philadelphia and the previous on in Seattle, it is alright for them to protest for the murder of God’s children in supporting abortion, it is alright for them to send white powder to the LDS Temples because they are upset that the LDS Church stands by its beliefs in opposition to gay marriage, as with Proposition 8 in California.

It seems to me that liberals and Democrats are able to say and do anything they want, but conservatives are disruptive if we even have peaceful demonstrations, like the 2 million people who marched on the Washington Mall a couple weeks ago against the government takeover of our health care system.

Much more can be said, but D&C 134:1 says it all, that we will be held accountable for our actions in relation to government, both in making and administering the law for the good and safety of society.

Robin : Dear Michelle, You can be a decent person, teach Sunday school and still call someone a liar. We are casted by the company we keep..like if the shoe fits wear it.. I would rather have a decent person oppose to whatevertype of person ? call me a liar…I certain would look at a decent person opinion closer before I explained my position , cause after all I already think they are decent. If I oppose them what am I?

Cynthia: The truth, cleverly told is the biggest lie of all! o(•¿•)o

You’ve gotta get Glenn Becks new book. “Arguing with Idiots” o(•¿•)o

Thompson: Yes, and that is how Satan has always worked, inserting a little truth or twisting things just enough, that it appears so nice. Like Satan’s plan of compulsion (liberalism) in the pre-existence.

Cynthia: Yep!!!!! MY ward is has a lot of BYU Profs. Very interesting scientific gospel. The Lord has won. Now we are being tested. The liberal people I know in Utah seem to be so pro government charity … the real listening and Constitution falls by the wayside.

Michelle: ”It’s not in our interest to be known as a one-party church,” … “Any notion that a church member cannot be both a Democrat and a good Mormon is wrong headed and should be ”obliterated,”

-Elder Marlin K Jensen (general authority and member of the Democratic party)

Also, from the newsroom at LDS.org:

“The Church does not attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

In addition to Marlin K. Jensen , James E. Faust served in the House of Representatives for the 28th Utah State Legislature as a Democrat, served as chairperson of the Utah State Democratic Party and was appointed by John F. Kennedy to the Lawyer’s Committee for Civil Rights.

Are you implying that these men were/are in favor of pornography, terroristic acts and murderous practices? That they are opposed to “fairness”, and do not understand the tenets of their own religion?

You use quite the broad brush of generalization to paint your extreme and misleading picture of democrats/liberals. As a registered democrat, I think abortion is something that should only happen in the cases of rape, incest, for the life/health of the mother, or in the case of an inviable fetus (if the mother so chooses in any of these cases), and would like to see tighter laws governing the legality of on demand abortion. Many on both sides of the political spectrum have similar views, and some countries in Europe (ie. England) that are considered “liberal”, have these more restrictive laws in place. Most Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, say that they would like to see abortion become a rare occurrence, as would many Republicans. While, there are some liberals that hold more extreme views on the issue, it is the same in the Republican party (where it is the more extreme conservatives that say that abortion should ALWAYS be illegal). Both extremes do not fall in line with the very centrist policy that the LDS church takes on the issue. (ie. exceptions for cases of rape, incest, for the life or health of the mother, or in the case of an inviable fetus. Elder Russell M. Nelson said on the issue: “Concern for the health of the mother is a vital one.”)

You say that you oppose “big government” which believes that it is the “answer to all things”, YET you want this same government to outlaw practices which YOU oppose, such as gay marriage. Do you only oppose “big government” if the said government disagrees with you and vice versa?

The following is from an Apostolic Circular issued by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve in 1875:

“One of the great evils with which our own nation is menaced at the present time is the wonderful growth of wealth in the hands of a comparatively few individuals. The very liberties for which our fathers contended so steadfastly and courageously, and which they bequeathed to us as a priceless legacy, are endangered by the monstrous power which this accumulation of wealth gives to a few individuals and a few powerful corporations…”

Large, powerful corporations are the same threat to freedom as an overly powerful government. I don’t believe in big government, per se.  I believe that there should be checks and balances over power mongering of ANY kind.

Yes, the LDS church preaches for us to be self sufficient, and yet they still have their own welfare programs in place. I believe, as the LDS church does, that welfare programs can be a springboard to self sufficiency. It was through school grants, medicaid, and other government programs, that my husband has had the opportunity to go to where he is now, a second year med student. His brother did the same, having just graduated from Harvard Law.* Neither would have had the means to accomplish these things if it weren’t for welfare programs. We will pay back many times in taxes the investment our government put into us. Also, I believe as Christ did in caring for the poor. I am more than willing to pay our taxes (which we will pay a large portion of with a doctor’s paycheck) towards making sure our poor (especially children, disabled and others with disadvantages), have access to basic needs like healthcare, schooling and nutritious food. This does NOT mean that I support laziness, anymore than the LDS church does by instilling a welfare program. In my own experience with them, these programs are only provide the basics, and it would only be through illegal fraud that one could live any kind of luxurious life off welfare. If it incites people to be so lazy, why haven’t you quit your job, so you could live the “opulent” life those who have to resort to welfare live (whether from the government or from the LDS church)?

Michelle: @Robin: I am as decent person as Mike, so by your logic, by disagreeing with me, Marlin K Jensen, etc, he is an indecent person. I don’t think that, I think we simply have different perspectives how to to better this world. Yes, it’s possible for two people to disagree politically and still both be good people.

Cynthia: “What win I, if I gain the thing I seek? A dream, a breath, a froth of fleeting joy. Who buys a minute’s mirth to wail a week? Or sells eternity to get a toy? For one sweet grape who will the vine destroy?” — William Shakespeare

Thompson: Michelle is a decent person. That does not make Michelle correct, but she is obviously working with what she believes is right and we should respect that. However, she should read, as she goes back to 1875 on some of her quotes, “Socialism and the United Order,” by Pres. Marion G. Romney, delivered in General Conference of the Church. And, as Pres. Hinckley said in his talk “War and Peace,” told us “Political difference never justify hatred or ill will. I hope that the Lord’s people may be at peace one with another during times of trouble, regardless of what loyalties they may have to different governments or parties.” Much more can be said about what he said in support of liberty and freedom “wherever it is in jeopardy.”

Thompson: By the way, anything misleading will be deleted. **(He posted this after deleting my longest post)**. If you want to post misleading information, do it on your own Facebook page. I have replied privately to Michelle about several things she has posted. She has a right to her opinion, but when they are so one-sided and ignore the prophets and what they have said, I will delete them. She has a nice page she can post them on.

Thompson: So we see that Democrats, TODAY, killed prolife provisions to the health care bill in the Senate today. What were we saying about liberalism and Democrats?

Peter: Yes, thank you for deleting Michelle’s “one-sided” posts and leaving up all the rest that are so open minded.

Thompson: Alright, tell me what you believe is misrepresented, I will look at it and see. I personally corresponded with Michelle on some matters which needed to be said. It is interesting that some will believe what anyone says and say nothing about what the prophets have said. You can see what is written. If you believe any of it is misrepresented, let me know. And, as you can see from my posts, even though I disagree, I defended her. She is a good person.

New status update this morning:

Thompson : Democrats have no respect for citizens. No free speech for conservatives, only for the Democrats when they were so rude to Bush, when they protested the Vietnam War, when the have been protesting the G20 Summit and when they did so in Seattle a few years ago as well. To a Democrat, free speech only goes one way.

to be continued…

*I could have pointed out the success stories of many of my friends and family, who used government programs to help them get through college. The only reason I singled out DH’s brother’s Harvard story is because Thompson is a lawyer/politician.

Unperfectness

I have a recurring temporary job. The company that I am employed with has occasional work available that I can do out of my home, and this week I’ve been asked to be a part of another three week project. While I attended training and a meeting, I wished I had a translator. Someone who could translate from business-ese to Michelle-ese. It’s not that I didn’t understand the words coming out of these brilliant entrepreneur’s mouths, it’s just that I don’t have one business-y bone in my body. If my very life depended on it, I don’t know that I’d be able to sell someone a $1o bill for a quarter.

But, that’s OK. The perfectionistic part of me wants to be good at everything, but lately I’ve been trying to fight that part of me. Perfectionism is a belief that anything less than perfect is unacceptable, and ironically, perfectionism is a major personality flaw. Perfectionism has never helped me achieve perfection, just neuroticism.

So, one of my tactics against perfectionism is to celebrate “unperfectness”. Weaknesses and quirks are some of the things that make life interesting. For example, since I was talking about business, I thought I’d share pictures I took of two businesses in my community that crack me up whenever I see them:

I have yet to have the courage to actually go into “Bell Electronics and Krazy Daves Knives”. I imagine a guy like Herman from “The Simpsons” would be standing behind the counter (if there is a counter in there.)

If I ever do work up the courage to go in there, though, I’ll be sure to bring my camera (and maybe some mace) and you guys will be the first to hear about what’s inside.

The other one is located in downtown Provo. There used to be a furniture store there called “Provo Furniture”. It was in business there for many years, and not too long ago, there was a big sign on it announcing a sale in lieu of the owner’s retirement. The sale passed, the owner retired, and “Provo Furniture” was passed on to a new owner.

The next time I saw “Provo Furniture”, it was having it’s grand re-opening under it’s new clever name:

Yes, frugality can go too far. Yet, whenever I pass “Pro Furniture”, it warms my soul.

UTAH!

…continued from “Tales from da Hood”

My parents wanted to move our family to Orem, Utah?! I wondered what it was going to be like there. I didn’t really know what to expect. I was Mormon, and I’d heard that Orem was primarily Mormon as well. I imagined it would be a lot like a larger version of my local ward (congregation); an eclectic group of nice people who shared the same religious ideals. I would find out that Utah Valley had it’s own culture that was quite distinct from the religion I was already familiar with.

My family made the move in July of 1995. The day that we arrived was a warm and sunny. Our new house had a nice flower garden and well manicured lawn, just like the rest of the houses on the block. In fact, our house looked almost exactly the same as the other houses on the block. Children were playing on the street. Two moderately priced cars were parked in every driveway. Yes, folks, I had moved to the textbook example of suburbia.

I still remember what I was wearing that day. It was an outfit just like this:

Yes, I know. I looked like I had just walked out of the movie “Clueless”. I quickly noticed, however, that nobody else did, and I began to wonder if Utah had been invited to the 90’s. As girls my age showed up to come meet “the new girl”, I noticed that most of them were dressed super conservatively. All wore nice jeans, no holes anywhere. (What?! Hasn’t anyone heard Nirvana, or of the grunge movement?) Not only that, but the jeans were rolled up at the ankle, so all could see their nice clean white socks. Shirts were ironed and tucked in. There were an inordinate amount of blondes. I might as well have been in a foreign country.

The move was difficult for me to adjust to for awhile. Utah Valley (the valley and community that Orem is located in), like most places had it’s share of quirks. My new school was filled with seemingly impenetrable cliques. At first, the girls seemed gossipy and self-righteous, and the boys were unfriendly.

There were other things to get used to as well:

UTAH FOOD

The local homemade food can be summed up in one word: “mushy”. There are lots of casseroles made with cream of mushroom soup, jellos filled with canned fruit chunks, fruit and pasta salads held together with loads of mayo. People are even prouder if it was made in a dutch oven. Meat and potatoes are staples. (The food in Utah drives my husband crazy, as he’s originally from Mexico City. He thinks Utah’s mushy food is characteristic of American food in general. I can’t wait to take him to eat in Manhattan or Houston so I can restore American food’s honor.)

POLITICS IN UTAH

I won’t go in depth into Utah politics, but politically,my husband and I often feel like this:

Yes, Utah Valley has been described by some as being in the “reddest” county in the “reddest” state. Despite this, Utah isn’t home to super “hardcore republicans.” Most tend to be moderately conservative, it just so happens that there’s a LOT of them in one place.

LANGUAGE IN UTAH

While there wasn’t as big as a difference in dialect as if I moved to The South, or Australia, there was still some language differences. A shocked Utahn might utter “Oh my heck!”. The words “mountain” and “water” lost their t’s. For some “creek” was pronounced “crick”. The days of the week for an older Utahn were “Mondee, Tuesdee, Wensdee,” and so on. “ditching school” was replaced with “sluffing school”. When a Utahn was given a “dirty look” by someone else, it was said that the person had just given them a “crusty” (I’m not sure how widespread that phrase is, it may have been only in my neighborhood). I was first introduced to the words: “hick”, “molly” (as a derogatory term), and “scones” in Utah. The word “crap” wasn’t considered a swear word, but I could no longer call someone a “bastard” without getting in trouble at school.

HOUSES IN UTAH

Like most of suburbia, there are lots of cookie cutter neighborhoods in Utah Valley.

UTAH VALLEY ART

Utah Valley’s arts are lacking to say the least. Paintings are usually very cheesy and contrived. Lots of flowerey landscapes, old fashioned dressed children playing with puppies, and religious themes are found framed in Utah homes. Many homes are decorated in a “country crafty” theme. A wooden teddy bear holding a sign that says “Have a Beary Merry Christmas!” is something you might find displayed on a Utah Valley porch. Thank goodness an IKEA just went in not too far away.

I think that this tradition dates back to when pioneers settled the valley. Since they had left all that they owned back east, they probably had to get creative and make their own decor from wood scraps. The ironic thing is that it has become a profitable business in Utah Valley, and all these “homemade” crafts are ridiculously overpriced.

(I may have been too harsh on Utah Valley’s arts. I confess that my tastes are “out there” for most people as I prefer stuff more like this:)

I have been living in Utah for 12 years now. I slowly began to fall in love with this quirky state. I eventually penetrated the cliques and made the best friends I’ve ever had. Utah Valley is frequently placed in the top ten safest places in the U.S., and it’s a wonderful place to raise a toddler. Also, even if the art scene seemed lacking at first, I realized that Utah has some of the best “natural art” found anywhere.

And who knows, maybe Utah will become architecture, art, music, or fashion’s next headquarters?

Well, probably not.